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	<title>Comments on: Critical Care: Revisited</title>
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	<description>Novelist, Screenwriter, Fugitive Lawyer, Code Monkey . . .</description>
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		<title>By: Critical Care: A Novel, by Richard Dooling</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9214</link>
		<dc:creator>Critical Care: A Novel, by Richard Dooling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9214</guid>
		<description>[...] also Critical Care revisited.        Cancel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] also Critical Care revisited.        Cancel [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mitch Funk</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9170</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitch Funk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:32:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9170</guid>
		<description>In my opinion &#039;Critical Care&#039; should be required reading.

Having thrice been on the receiving end of medical imcompetence I can state that, from my experience, our medical establishment is a scam concocted by doctors and lawyers to extract as much money as possible. The Hippocratic Oath is a sham,  since few, if any doctors volunteer to make amends when they screw up.

Why would you ever want to be hooked up to a machine at the end of life while the system performs a fundectomy on your net worth? Better that money go to your heirs to pay for things like houses and college tuition for grandchildren, so man up and go out with some dignity. Nobody here gets out alive anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion &#8216;Critical Care&#8217; should be required reading.</p>
<p>Having thrice been on the receiving end of medical imcompetence I can state that, from my experience, our medical establishment is a scam concocted by doctors and lawyers to extract as much money as possible. The Hippocratic Oath is a sham,  since few, if any doctors volunteer to make amends when they screw up.</p>
<p>Why would you ever want to be hooked up to a machine at the end of life while the system performs a fundectomy on your net worth? Better that money go to your heirs to pay for things like houses and college tuition for grandchildren, so man up and go out with some dignity. Nobody here gets out alive anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Dooling</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9169</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Dooling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9169</guid>
		<description>Good point, Jen. 

One way to avoid a debacle at the end of life is to do our best to make these decisions BEFORE we end up in the ICU. We tried that, and it was promptly shouted down as a death panel. If family members and elderly patients could see what it&#039;s like to die in intensive care units, fewer people would go there, less money would change hands, and people would spend the end of their lives the way most of them imagine it: At home, in bed, surrounded by friends and loved ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Jen. </p>
<p>One way to avoid a debacle at the end of life is to do our best to make these decisions BEFORE we end up in the ICU. We tried that, and it was promptly shouted down as a death panel. If family members and elderly patients could see what it&#8217;s like to die in intensive care units, fewer people would go there, less money would change hands, and people would spend the end of their lives the way most of them imagine it: At home, in bed, surrounded by friends and loved ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9138</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9138</guid>
		<description>Mr. Dooling, I came to check out your web site after seeing your column on the generation gap reprinted in the Dallas Morning News.
I agree with what you say in your very well-expressed column about the costs of &quot;heroic measures&quot; often outweighing the benefits.  The salient phrase for me, was  your description of the attitude: &quot;getting old and dying is a medical emergency.&quot;  From my perspective, this is a part of an overall attitude that wants to deny any limits on human beings, including the ultimate insult, our mortality.  We shall be as gods, and we shall do it through Science.  This rebellion against all that is greater than ourselves leads directly to suffering.
Having said that, I had to ask myself why families continue to bankrupt themselves for treatements they know will probably not work, and that are clearly causing suffering to the patient. Besides the naive trust in the medical establishment that our idolatry of Science creates, I think there is another, more profound reason.  We are up against some very basic human drives.  One is to avoid death at all costs.  Another is to honor our elders and do everything we can for them, even when what we can do becomes largely symbolic rather than effective.  I think this is a universal human behavior that will never be eradicated - and, frankly, it&#039;s not all bad.  People in every society will do everything they can to demonstrate love and honor to their parents and grandparents.  In some places, that just means spending a lot on funeral rites (think 
Asia).  It&#039;s our misfortune that technology and industry have placed (barely) within our grasp things to do for our elders that come at a horrendous cost to them and us. However, I don&#039;t think you&#039;re going to get most people to stop taking all those measures as long as those measure are available.  It&#039;s just not human nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Dooling, I came to check out your web site after seeing your column on the generation gap reprinted in the Dallas Morning News.<br />
I agree with what you say in your very well-expressed column about the costs of &#8220;heroic measures&#8221; often outweighing the benefits.  The salient phrase for me, was  your description of the attitude: &#8220;getting old and dying is a medical emergency.&#8221;  From my perspective, this is a part of an overall attitude that wants to deny any limits on human beings, including the ultimate insult, our mortality.  We shall be as gods, and we shall do it through Science.  This rebellion against all that is greater than ourselves leads directly to suffering.<br />
Having said that, I had to ask myself why families continue to bankrupt themselves for treatements they know will probably not work, and that are clearly causing suffering to the patient. Besides the naive trust in the medical establishment that our idolatry of Science creates, I think there is another, more profound reason.  We are up against some very basic human drives.  One is to avoid death at all costs.  Another is to honor our elders and do everything we can for them, even when what we can do becomes largely symbolic rather than effective.  I think this is a universal human behavior that will never be eradicated &#8211; and, frankly, it&#8217;s not all bad.  People in every society will do everything they can to demonstrate love and honor to their parents and grandparents.  In some places, that just means spending a lot on funeral rites (think<br />
Asia).  It&#8217;s our misfortune that technology and industry have placed (barely) within our grasp things to do for our elders that come at a horrendous cost to them and us. However, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re going to get most people to stop taking all those measures as long as those measure are available.  It&#8217;s just not human nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Shipley</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Shipley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>Richard:
Here is an idea for you.  How about if the Government pays for everything that my family and I want or need and nothing that anyone else wants or needs.

Tongue in cheek?  Of course.

Ultimately, the problem of  overspending on the aged will be improved, but it will be done quietly, out of sight of the masses.  Some folks think that everything should be done in a public forum, but it almost never works that way.  Call it human nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard:<br />
Here is an idea for you.  How about if the Government pays for everything that my family and I want or need and nothing that anyone else wants or needs.</p>
<p>Tongue in cheek?  Of course.</p>
<p>Ultimately, the problem of  overspending on the aged will be improved, but it will be done quietly, out of sight of the masses.  Some folks think that everything should be done in a public forum, but it almost never works that way.  Call it human nature.</p>
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		<title>By: James Coats</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9131</link>
		<dc:creator>James Coats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9131</guid>
		<description>Government has the Midas Touch in reverse. Yes our health care has many problems. I however want it to remain as it is. Individuals via the private sector will change it by our own actions.  Robert has it spot on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Government has the Midas Touch in reverse. Yes our health care has many problems. I however want it to remain as it is. Individuals via the private sector will change it by our own actions.  Robert has it spot on.</p>
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		<title>By: stuart hochberg</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9122</link>
		<dc:creator>stuart hochberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9122</guid>
		<description>There really isn&#039;t much to say. &quot;Dr&quot;. Dooling , you are a monster!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There really isn&#8217;t much to say. &#8220;Dr&#8221;. Dooling , you are a monster!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Douglas Watt</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9121</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Douglas Watt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9121</guid>
		<description>Just eavesdropping on some of these discussions.  Scary.  It&#039;s pretty stunning how defensive and even paranoid people get when you start talking about any kind of regulation of health care.  

Unfortunately, people who believe that healthcare regulation means forced euthanasia for everyone over 85 clearly are not listening to much of anything other than their own fears and distortions, and it&#039;s not clear that one can have any kind of real discussion with someone operating from this basis who needs to polarize the discussion in this fashion, or who needs to turn reform of what is a crazy system into cruel acts by evil figures trying to &quot;pull the plug on grandma.&quot;  

I think if Barack Obama is making any mistake it looks increasingly that he is naive about reaching a consensus with people who are operating from this basis, or from any base of rigid ideology and who simply don&#039;t want to listen to what the human experience is like for the average patient in our health care system.  Unfortunately, and rabid free-market ideologies to the contrary, the average experience in this country for patients trying to get healthcare and trying to get basic answers to simple questions about their health is unfortunately far worse again on average than for people in any major European country receiving &quot;government health care.&quot; 

Our system is completely broken and it&#039;s broken in many, many ways, some of which I tried to outline in my previous post.  At bottom, it&#039;s not really a healthcare system, it&#039;s an end-stage disease care system, and many if not most of these chronic diseases could have been prevented or at least have their onset seriously delayed, if there was any sensible and concerted focus on prevention.  Unfortunately, prevention doesn&#039;t pay squat in this country, so we simply don&#039;t do it.  On the other hand, high-tech tertiary care of an advanced disease of aging (pick any of them) pays extremely well, so we do tons of that.  Unfortunately, that kind of care often times does very little to preserve quality of life (indeed it oftentimes constitutes a virtual assault on the patient), and it essentially represents closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.  As Mark Twain once said, &quot;you can&#039;t expect someone to understand something if their salary depends on their not understanding it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just eavesdropping on some of these discussions.  Scary.  It&#8217;s pretty stunning how defensive and even paranoid people get when you start talking about any kind of regulation of health care.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, people who believe that healthcare regulation means forced euthanasia for everyone over 85 clearly are not listening to much of anything other than their own fears and distortions, and it&#8217;s not clear that one can have any kind of real discussion with someone operating from this basis who needs to polarize the discussion in this fashion, or who needs to turn reform of what is a crazy system into cruel acts by evil figures trying to &#8220;pull the plug on grandma.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I think if Barack Obama is making any mistake it looks increasingly that he is naive about reaching a consensus with people who are operating from this basis, or from any base of rigid ideology and who simply don&#8217;t want to listen to what the human experience is like for the average patient in our health care system.  Unfortunately, and rabid free-market ideologies to the contrary, the average experience in this country for patients trying to get healthcare and trying to get basic answers to simple questions about their health is unfortunately far worse again on average than for people in any major European country receiving &#8220;government health care.&#8221; </p>
<p>Our system is completely broken and it&#8217;s broken in many, many ways, some of which I tried to outline in my previous post.  At bottom, it&#8217;s not really a healthcare system, it&#8217;s an end-stage disease care system, and many if not most of these chronic diseases could have been prevented or at least have their onset seriously delayed, if there was any sensible and concerted focus on prevention.  Unfortunately, prevention doesn&#8217;t pay squat in this country, so we simply don&#8217;t do it.  On the other hand, high-tech tertiary care of an advanced disease of aging (pick any of them) pays extremely well, so we do tons of that.  Unfortunately, that kind of care often times does very little to preserve quality of life (indeed it oftentimes constitutes a virtual assault on the patient), and it essentially represents closing the barn door after the horse has escaped.  As Mark Twain once said, &#8220;you can&#8217;t expect someone to understand something if their salary depends on their not understanding it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Dooling</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9116</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Dooling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9116</guid>
		<description>Some folks are commenting on the NYTimes Op-Ed health care piece on other pages. See, for example:

http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/about-richarddoolingcom/

and

http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/7/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some folks are commenting on the NYTimes Op-Ed health care piece on other pages. See, for example:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/about-richarddoolingcom/" rel="nofollow">http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/about-richarddoolingcom/</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/7/" rel="nofollow">http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/7/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Clemmer</title>
		<link>http://www.richarddooling.com/index.php/2009/08/16/critical-care-revisited/comment-page-1/#comment-9114</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Clemmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.richarddooling.com/?p=717#comment-9114</guid>
		<description>I am a nurse. I currently at work at a nice medium sized not-for-profit hospital in the mid-west. I work in infectious diseases, one of the fields that has been extraordinarily successful at saving lives  and improving well-being. One other area as I understand it is trauma care. Persons mangled by injury or accident can and do in many cases get mended and, with sufficient luck and therapy, continue on to live productive lives. 

However, in my earlier days when I practiced in the emergency room and critical care unit where codes and extraordinary measures were routine, one has to ask the question &quot;at what price life?&quot; We have amazing tools and procedures available to us today. Just like the code in &quot;bed one&quot; above it seems to be a foregone conclusion that using all of them at all times is compassionate. 

(That same mentality has transferred over to our pets as well...echo cardiograms, dialysis, chemotherapy. When I was a kid, there were limits to what a family invested in its pet. Nowadays, vets, like doctors are trained to make all these expensive interventions available and we feel obligated to use them. I&#039;m not comparing caring for Snoopy the same as caring for Grandma, but rather to demonstrate  the point the saying NO is very difficult. Because doing nothing is difficult as well.) 

Over the years I have seen many people use hospice but it is usually not until the very very end. People still equate hospice with giving up, with doing nothing. But doing &quot;nothing&quot; is hardly nothing...hospice is where doing nothing means letting go of all the medical &quot;miracles&quot; and letting the care return to the whole patient - physical as well as emotional comfort. 

Considering our options at the end of life, officially known as advance directives, is hardly a reason to become hysterical and condemn people to hell. Investing less in medical miracles during the last 6 months of life will make us better able to provide compassionate care to those who are dying, and better able to provide wellness care to those who aren&#039;t, young and old. 

We are all part of the same family and share at least one thing in common - we are all going to die. Continuing to live with the illusion that modern medicine can take that ultimate truth away or make it easier for anyone, the patient, the family or the caregivers is foolish. I&#039;ve seen too many elderly people on machines, with a dozen or more tubes, cut up, disfigured, infected and otherwise brutalized at the end of life. This is torture for them and torture for their families. But until we really answer the question &quot;at what price life?&quot; we will continue to spend ourselves into oblivion and be all the worst off for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a nurse. I currently at work at a nice medium sized not-for-profit hospital in the mid-west. I work in infectious diseases, one of the fields that has been extraordinarily successful at saving lives  and improving well-being. One other area as I understand it is trauma care. Persons mangled by injury or accident can and do in many cases get mended and, with sufficient luck and therapy, continue on to live productive lives. </p>
<p>However, in my earlier days when I practiced in the emergency room and critical care unit where codes and extraordinary measures were routine, one has to ask the question &#8220;at what price life?&#8221; We have amazing tools and procedures available to us today. Just like the code in &#8220;bed one&#8221; above it seems to be a foregone conclusion that using all of them at all times is compassionate. </p>
<p>(That same mentality has transferred over to our pets as well&#8230;echo cardiograms, dialysis, chemotherapy. When I was a kid, there were limits to what a family invested in its pet. Nowadays, vets, like doctors are trained to make all these expensive interventions available and we feel obligated to use them. I&#8217;m not comparing caring for Snoopy the same as caring for Grandma, but rather to demonstrate  the point the saying NO is very difficult. Because doing nothing is difficult as well.) </p>
<p>Over the years I have seen many people use hospice but it is usually not until the very very end. People still equate hospice with giving up, with doing nothing. But doing &#8220;nothing&#8221; is hardly nothing&#8230;hospice is where doing nothing means letting go of all the medical &#8220;miracles&#8221; and letting the care return to the whole patient &#8211; physical as well as emotional comfort. </p>
<p>Considering our options at the end of life, officially known as advance directives, is hardly a reason to become hysterical and condemn people to hell. Investing less in medical miracles during the last 6 months of life will make us better able to provide compassionate care to those who are dying, and better able to provide wellness care to those who aren&#8217;t, young and old. </p>
<p>We are all part of the same family and share at least one thing in common &#8211; we are all going to die. Continuing to live with the illusion that modern medicine can take that ultimate truth away or make it easier for anyone, the patient, the family or the caregivers is foolish. I&#8217;ve seen too many elderly people on machines, with a dozen or more tubes, cut up, disfigured, infected and otherwise brutalized at the end of life. This is torture for them and torture for their families. But until we really answer the question &#8220;at what price life?&#8221; we will continue to spend ourselves into oblivion and be all the worst off for it.</p>
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